Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Contemplating going to stage 3 but...

  1. #1
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Nr. Guildford
    Posts
    2,481
    Rides
    0

    Contemplating going to stage 3 but...

    ... I happened across this old post

    Quote Originally Posted by butcherbrown View Post
    yes go for the t28 i had a t25 on a auto and they go very flat in power on gear change up the t28 soon cures this.
    DO NOT get 444s or z32 with a jez stage 3 chip as you have a auto you will be running the box over the limit.
    stick with stage 2 at around 14/15psi with zorst etc this will see you 260/270 and thats about a reliable limit for your box
    I have an auto and no interest in changing to manual*.
    So was that poster right way back when ?
    Is an auto tranny up to the stress of stage 3 or not ?

    Must confess, I was always under the impression that it was the auto transmission that was the better able to handle more power than the manual before seeing this post. Am I wrong about that ?



    * Please, manual fanbois save the posts trying to persuade me of the error of my ways ? I've had two manual S13's before this one and I am well aware of the benefits / demerits. I am so much happier with the auto once I got used to it. Plus which I have a spare low mileage auto box sitting waiting in the garage in case of need

  2. #2
    Member alanjuggler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    manchester
    Posts
    9,970
    Rides
    0
    it is right - usual conception is that stage2 is the limit for the unmodified auto box - iirc barryjdart/nene have done more looking into upgrading the auto box than most, so might be worth looking for their posts.
    white '94 s13 200sx scrapped - mapped to 1.45bar. OS giken box, garrett GT2876R, 950cc injectors, ORC twin plate, nistune. 349bhp/325lbft @ 1.3bar CA18DET
    white '96 s13 180sx - type g with more kouki bits - RB25DET, GTR steel twin turbo conversion, RB26 crank & rods. 2.6L VVT twin turbo, SR20 OSG box, OSG STR twin plate clutch, Z32 ECU w/ nistune.

    current status: 180 a bit broken but to be repaired.

  3. #3
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Nr. Guildford
    Posts
    2,481
    Rides
    0
    Thanks for that, disappointing tho it is to have confirmed.

    On a slight tangent, given that a bespoke chip tuning session with jez is planned for the near future, is it worth fitting 444 injectors even though staying at stage 2 ?

    I suspect that once fine tuned by Jez I will be happy to stay at stage 2, especially if it saves having to mess about with an unwanted transmission change, but I am always a little cautious about reading about the OEM injectors being maxed out / on max duty cycle there or thereabouts.

  4. #4
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Helston, West Cornwall
    Posts
    24,465
    Rides
    0
    Just have a chat with Jez, mate. He will know the duty cycles for standard (370 ?) injectors and whether you are nearing them for a T28.

    Not sure the 444s will be worth it if you're not going Z32 AFM.

  5. #5
    Guest Zornyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    essex
    Posts
    3,221
    Rides
    0
    Don't think 444s would be worth it imo for that power. You can push standard injectors up to 290bhp so the 260ish from stage 2 is just fine.

    Iirc jez does a stage 3 for an auto so maybe ask him if he thinks it's possible. I mean he wouldn't write a chip that cant be used with the standard box would he?

  6. #6
    Member alanjuggler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    manchester
    Posts
    9,970
    Rides
    0
    white '94 s13 200sx scrapped - mapped to 1.45bar. OS giken box, garrett GT2876R, 950cc injectors, ORC twin plate, nistune. 349bhp/325lbft @ 1.3bar CA18DET
    white '96 s13 180sx - type g with more kouki bits - RB25DET, GTR steel twin turbo conversion, RB26 crank & rods. 2.6L VVT twin turbo, SR20 OSG box, OSG STR twin plate clutch, Z32 ECU w/ nistune.

    current status: 180 a bit broken but to be repaired.

  7. #7
    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Worksop
    Posts
    2,896
    Rides
    0
    Would have thought you'd want 444s for the Torque, not the Power.
    Last edited by cleanhands; 23-09-2011 at 20:36. Reason: I'm an illiterate wakner

  8. #8
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Croydon
    Posts
    1,141
    Rides
    0
    If you want a Stage 3 auto, I imagine there are plenty of Skyline GTS-T / Supra / Z32 etc auto boxes which are sitting in wheelie bins outside their owners' houses after they converted them to manual, ie you could probably obtain a beefier auto box fairly cheaply. (Fitting would be another matter, tho!).

  9. #9
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Nr. Guildford
    Posts
    2,481
    Rides
    0
    If there is a better autobox that will fit without too many tears then I would certainly consider it.

    If however it is going to need (as I suspect) bell housing adapter fabrication, bespoke mounts, complicated welding, even more difficult aluminium welding and a bespoke length propshaft then it is certainly beyond my capacity and interest in affording it.

    Simpler to just buy a standard Z32 TT in the first place. Which has, I confess, tempted me and crossed my mind from time to time.

    But I love my S13....
    Last edited by Rochester; 17-10-2011 at 16:40.

  10. #10
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    gone
    Posts
    25,653
    Rides
    0
    I remember Nene looking into this yeeeeaaaaaaarrss ago. IIRC her findings were that the box is actually very very similar to the z32 unit, but the torque converter is a downgraded item, possibly because of the size of the bellhousing???

  11. #11
    Guest kingj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    near boro,cambs
    Posts
    4,900
    Rides
    0
    Alright Danny long time no speak!! how life treating you bud? still working in the renault scene with cutler and co? still got the s13? let me know if your ever around the cambd area,be good to catch up

  12. #12
    Guest nene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    7,856
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochester View Post
    Must confess, I was always under the impression that it was the auto transmission that was the better able to handle more power than the manual before seeing this post. Am I wrong about that ?
    Sort of

    The automatic transmission has a lot more in the way of metal to carry loads, but it has more weak points.

    The planetary gearsets are stronger than the gears in a manual gearbox.
    The clutchpacks and brake bands are a weak point, and can slip and wear easily. This can be fixed, but costs a lot of money.
    The gearsets are susceptible to heat buildup. Again this can be fixed, but costs money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sideways Danny View Post
    I remember Nene looking into this yeeeeaaaaaaarrss ago. IIRC her findings were that the box is actually very very similar to the z32 unit, but the torque converter is a downgraded item, possibly because of the size of the bellhousing???
    The S13 and Z32 gearboxes are virtually identical. Here's a list of the differences:

    1. Z32 torque convertor has a higher stall speed.
    2. Z32 has different gear ratios, necessitating different shift points.
    3. Z32 gearbox has more clutch plates in the packs, resulting in higher strength and better heat dissipation.
    4. Z32 gearbox uses a different bell housing.

  13. #13
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Nr. Guildford
    Posts
    2,481
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nene View Post
    The S13 and Z32 gearboxes are virtually identical. Here's a list of the differences:

    1. Z32 torque convertor has a higher stall speed.
    2. Z32 has different gear ratios, necessitating different shift points.
    3. Z32 gearbox has more clutch plates in the packs, resulting in higher strength and better heat dissipation.
    4. Z32 gearbox uses a different bell housing.
    Holy thread revival...

    Can you use S13 torque converter with the Z32 box ? or is higher stall speed irrelevant / an advantage with a higher than standard powered tuned S13 ?

    Do the different gear ratios / shift points mean that it is basically impossible for an OEM S13 ECU + chip to cope ? Needs a bespoke chipping session ?

    can you unzip s13 bellhousing and stick on Z32 rear half ?

    Finally, is there any auto box from the Nissan range that will swap in to an auto S13, handle more power and with no equivalent probs ?

    Cheers all

  14. #14
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Nr. Guildford
    Posts
    2,481
    Rides
    0
    Lord I am always too bloody long winded...

    Simples:

    If staying auto is there a decently cost effective (ie. not too bloody expensive) stronger alternative to the OEM box and

    if not, which manual box for a stage 3 road use daily driver CA18DET S13 ?

  15. #15
    Guest ANDY black s13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    erith kent england
    Posts
    6,350
    Rides
    0
    I'm guilty of long ramblings so I will try shorter version
    there is no simple/cheap alternative auto-box, s13 manual box can take stage 3 if don't beat on it
    a cheapish up grade for the manual option would be a CA bellhousing on a 14a gearset/back half of casing
    14a has shielded bearings and a trap door in the center plate to reduce oil surge rearwards

  16. #16
    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    23,662
    Rides
    0
    Not much info available regarding the autos, I think Ford C4 was one of the easier options with adapters being available

  17. #17
    Guest
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Burton on Trent
    Posts
    11,209
    Rides
    0
    I thought one cheapish option was to increase the line pressure by adjusting the resistor value.

    Anyone heard how Nene is getting on?

  18. #18
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Helston, West Cornwall
    Posts
    24,465
    Rides
    0
    I've heard nothing in years mate. It's surprising how often I wonder how she and Lum are getting on.

    Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Nr. Guildford
    Posts
    2,481
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by skyshack View Post
    I thought one cheapish option was to increase the line pressure by adjusting the resistor value.
    How do you do that ?

  20. #20
    Guest
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Burton on Trent
    Posts
    11,209
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochester View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by skyshack View Post
    I thought one cheapish option was to increase the line pressure by adjusting the resistor value.
    How do you do that ?
    http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissa...esistor-35866/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •