WOT No EU Referendum Thread?

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Maybe you should learn to summarise
I read and agreed with most of the points you made in your first post. 2nd post was too much even for me lol.
Trouble is, most people have trouble differentiating between what is good for them, for family, for locals, for the country, for the EU and for humanity.
Generally, the biggest arguments are usually between those who stop at country and those that stop at EU.
Regardless, it is about protectionism.
IMO, you need to step back and understand the human condition at work to understand this.
Personal view is that the EU is a bad thing on balance for all the individuals in the EU. Our exit will benefit them all in the long run.
Just my opinion of course.

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[zeppelin101]

Personal view is that the EU is a bad thing on balance for all the individuals in the EU. Our exit will benefit them all in the long run.
Just my opinion of course.

If the "more Europe" angle that was being pushed earlier in the thread was a concern before, how will us leaving change that? The people at the top aren't really talking about reform, so why would things change when we were the biggest critics in the inner circle? Unless other countries leave I think things will carry on as they were.

As an aside, immigration isn't at fault for the country being in a shit state - we have appalling infrastructure countrywide and no real plans to fix it. Billions to fix and no clear intention from anyone in parliament to go and attempt to do anything about it. Have all the systems you like in place to get the "right" people here but with poor infrastructure it will only ever get worse.

[sideways14a]

Can i have that secondary rant in a summery please.
Soz i have a short attention span, for instance i only watch the first 2 mins of an F1 race..

[logik]

EU is many bads with lots of bad stuff.

I'm awful at summaries; higher education just develops your ability to waffle on for like 100x longer than it would take. I wish I'd done an apprenticeship...

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Don't blame your education ! I left school at 15 but still believe that education does nothing more (and nothing less) than inform. It's not a means of gaining intellect

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[Jonny Wilkinson]

When I said it would help other countries, I meant they could reform the EU to a more democratic entity or leave like we have chosen to do.

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[Asht_200]

When I said it would help other countries, I meant they could reform the EU to a more democratic entity or leave like we have chosen to do.

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There's the problem.

There is no appetite to reform. The EU. Rather than see that there is an inherent problem, the EU would rather overlook it and blame Britain for being a bad boy, instead of looking at itself.


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[zeppelin101]

As far as I can tell from talking to a number of people at work about the EU, quite a lot of continentals identify as European first and then their own nationality, not the other way round. Intrinsically that means that a lot of them are very committed to the EU project they only see it as a good thing.

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[Jonny Wilkinson]

As far as I can tell from talking to a number of people at work about the EU, quite a lot of continentals identify as European first and then their own nationality, not the other way round. Intrinsically that means that a lot of them are very committed to the EU project they only see it as a good thing.

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This too is my experience. :Nod:


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[sideways14a]

On another note, loads out today demonstrating against trump - lots of females.
Now quick question, where aint all these lefty libtards not protesting outside the Saudi embassys or maybe even in Iran or another Muslim state?
After all woman in many countries around the world are subjected to persecution and have much less rights than men... So .. why stand half a million deep moaning about some orange idiot who likes the odd grope and not about the disgusting attitude to woman in many a repressed country around the world.

Ohh wait i know why, because they will be bloody shot.

[zeppelin101]

This too is my experience. :Nod:


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I guess what I was driving at is that the UK leaving the union will probably make no odds to what happens next in the EU, especially not amongst the core group. We have always been the odd ones out.

[Jonny Wilkinson]

I, on the other hand, think that central Europeans can differentiate between EU and Europe. Lots of them think that the EU is bad for Europeans

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[docwra]

And you can go to Vietnam, but you cant settle or work there. Big difference.

You can settle and/or work anywhere on the planet providing you're capable of meeting whatever requirements the country has imposed and this is rarely difficult for people who specialise in something[/quote]

I run an international recruitment company ......... and thats not accurate. I wont go into pages of why not, suffice to say that if you lose the job you have gone to Vietnam for any reason then youre pretty screwed.

For the rest, Im feeling a lot of it depends on your opinion on globalisation and the inevitable imperfections that come with it.

[auz200sx]

Seeing some of the news coming out of the UK over here I can't help but think you've been conned. Full backing from Parliament a? Sure they won't drag that out as long as they can, probably till the next election. Hang on that's a good opportunity to use the New government fresh face rearranged cabinet idea and they say well public opinions changed now so we will stay in. Old Cameron could even come back bloody hell that would be funny. They said Rudd couldn't do it here but he did....... Twice.........still ****ed it up mind you but still.

[sideways14a]

There will be no dragging, a50 will go through parliament with little resistance bar a few labour muppets - the scottish natzi party and Ken clark !

At the end of the day a vote was had, the result was valid and the outcome should stand.. going back for a second go is ridiculous - whats to stop leavers demanding a third vote if they loose the second... christ we could be here for years.

[zeppelin101]

There will be no dragging, a50 will go through parliament with little resistance bar a few labour muppets - the scottish natzi party and Ken clark !

At the end of the day a vote was had, the result was valid and the outcome should stand.. going back for a second go is ridiculous - whats to stop leavers demanding a third vote if they loose the second... christ we could be here for years.

Hence Cameron's repeated "Referendum not Neverendum" diatribe during the campaign.

The gvmt only need the Tory awkwards to toe the party line, they have a majority so what everyone else does is of no consequence to them...

[logik]

The recent issue with the courts and article 50 was an inevitable ruling; I have severe doubts that the supreme court judges who found against the government in the case were free of conflicts of interest within the web of the EU. I also think the ruling was incorrect - we have gone to war under the royal prerogative which I'd suggest is a potentially a more significant process than withdrawing from the EU, but apparently the EU needs Parliamentary approval? Absurd imo. War puts the whole country under direct threat, withdrawing from the EU does not.

I do not think there will be significant issues with regard to passing a bill in the commons, the lords could be a more entertaining vote though as, quite honestly, the house of lords is the most significant issue (aside from the EU) with regard to the UK being a democracy. I have generally sided with the "if it ain't broke" principle regarding the Lords as they have contributed significantly as a balance against the over extension of MPs powers, though that role seems to have diminished since Labour rearranged the Lords under Blair. Regardless, the Lords can be bypassed, but it'll involve a substantial time wasting process.

I run an international recruitment company ......... and thats not accurate. I wont go into pages of why not, suffice to say that if you lose the job you have gone to Vietnam for any reason then youre pretty screwed.

Because if you lose the job that enabled you to fulfil the visa requirements, you no longer fulfil the requirements and will need to find another job in order to do so, possibly from your country of origin.
Again, I don't see a problem with this. If your skills are in high demand and you are talented, you won't have any issues. If you have common skills that are readily available, you'll have problems - but it's bad for a country to import people with readily available skills as that plays havoc with the internal labour market. Just saying though!

[zeppelin101]

I also think the ruling was incorrect - we have gone to war under the royal prerogative which I'd suggest is a potentially a more significant process than withdrawing from the EU, but apparently the EU needs Parliamentary approval? Absurd imo. War puts the whole country under direct threat, withdrawing from the EU does not.

Daft reason for it being wrong tbh, going to war should be a parliamentary decision too. The fact it isn't is far more of a farce.

[sideways14a]

See Wurzal had a really bad (even for him) PMQ today... especially the "Dead" plod in NI bit.. what a feckin plonker.

[docwra]

Because if you lose the job that enabled you to fulfil the visa requirements, you no longer fulfil the requirements and will need to find another job in order to do so, possibly from your country of origin.

Thanks for that, maybe you missed the part where I said it was what I do for a living.

What happens with your medical insurance, personal insurance after you lose the job? How do you find a new job if you cant stay in country? What are you going to do if your employer refuses to pay you for the work you have done, take them to tribunal and claim Vietnamese unemployment benefit in the meantime?

The point is that an EU person has exactly the same rights and benefits regardless of where they are in the EU including those to live, work and claim benefits. For me, this is a good thing.