Power steering issues! Straight cam SR

[shikari chaos]

Hey all
I'm having some what of a nightmare with my power steering. Car is a S13 180sx SR blacktop straight cam.
I've had a competent mechanic make and fit new braided power steering lines; reservoir to pump, pump to rack rack to res. The car had hicas so opened up the hicas side of the pump and removed the veins then blanked off the pump to hicas feed.
Anyway now to the problem, the power steering feels awful! When the car is running and you turn the steering wheel it basically vibrates and feels super knotchy. You can see the wheels step/knotchy when you turn the wheel.

Anyone got any idea what could cause this?

I'm loathed to put an s14 pump on it because S13 ps pump is 1100psi and S14 1300psi although the braided hoses would cope so also has te rack seals can cope it should be ok..

Anyway would really appreciate some input
Many thanks

[skyshack]

Did you bleed it?

Fill tank.
Raise wheels off ground.
Quickly turn steering to full lock both ways.
Repeat until level in tank doesn't drop.
Start engine.
Quickly turn steering to full lock both ways.

Do not hold steering on full lock.

[shikari chaos]

Thanks for the reply dude. Yep we did bleed it so to speak...
It's all functioning properly now but just to clarify:

We tried bleeding the system but it still felt horrible and was pressurising the tank. The pump sounded horrible and from the screw driver to ear test you could tell there was still air in the pump. So, read a bunch of threads on Zilvia and Nissan road racing which basically said as you have but mentioned the fact that the pump has an internal valve that seems to only allow the system to bleed fully with the engine off.. ohhh.
Pretty startlingly basic mistake. However the mechanic has fitted many many power steering lines in a plethora of different cars and always done it with the engine running.

I think because the pump is hicas, only added to the amount of air the system was holding.
When you say "Quickly turn the steering to full lock both ways, Repeat until level in tank doesn't drop" I probably had to do 40+ Lock to lock turns (with the engine off and insuring it didn't hit hard lock). My hands were dirty so used my finger on the inside of the wheel which wasn't so comfy after the first 20 or so turns

Oh and when we bled it successfully we started bleeding it with the return hose off the reservoir which was mentioned on one of the threads I read but really don't think that helped. Although it did help get ATF everywhere!

To sum it up, newb status achieved

[shikari chaos]

I spoke too soon. Drove the car home today and the power steering was great at first, then I noticed a whine. The whine got worse.
Upon parking up I popped the bonnet and could see atf had been forced out the reservoir top bleed hole. The reservoir was also very hot! Didn't dare touch the pump.

Any ideas?

[green_rs13]

sounds like you have done something to the pump.

[shikari chaos]

Yeah, sadly you could well be right.

However, the plot thickens. Went and bled the system just now. Car off, front jacked up and turned steering left right left right a bunch of times, air was bleeding out into the res so I shone a torch into it to see if the rest of the fluid was aerated and noticed stuff floating in the fluid. I got the syringe out and drained most of the fluid from the tank (not going below the hose heights) and could immediately see that the inside of the new ps tank had a coating that was coming away into the fluid! (Reputable tank manufacturer and from a main dealer)
Clearly this could be blocking the system and cause all kinds of issues.
Tech is taking the car back to tomorrow and speaking with the supplier about the tank.

[shikari chaos]

Ok so this has become a saga.

Brief synopsis of what happened after the new lines have been fitted. For those who want the full story I've added it below.

-After short drives or lots of steering manoeuvres the steering whined excessively.

-The fluid was aerating. I noticed fluid in my parking spot.

-Took car back to the Mechanic

-Told him obvious places to look. Ps rack fittings and the casting interfering etc

-He said they were not leaking, he'd checked them and we assumed the aeration was form the ps tank

-Ordered a Chase bays PS tank.

-Got the car back, added a baffle to the mishimoto tank it helped a lot but not fixed.

-I got the car on a ramp. The rack fittings were leaking.

-I ground the castings flat, fitted new washers, they stopped leaking.

-I can drive it fairly far and the aeration is very low.

-I'm now awaiting the mechanic to fit the Chase Bays PS tank.

I need to mention the Mechanic has been helpful, drove me home when the car was undriveable just a little disappointed he didn't manage to resolve the issue after two attempts and me telling him where to look.


The full banana:
The Power steering was still whining and aerating. I then noticed the Mishimoto ps tank lost its internal coating. The tank design of the inlet and outlet is basically awful too with no baffling.
Spoke to a few custom fab companies about PS tanks and got a load of info, came very close to getting one custom made and some won't even make them due to the issues you can get with them. Turns out PS tanks are hard to design successfully and insure a good baffle design to reduce fluid return speed and prevent inducing cavitation/aeration in the tank.

I ended up ordering a Chase Bays PS tank from the states that has internal baffles and is specifically designed for track and drift applications. Bit over kill but I'd been more than pissed off by this ps issue and prevents any doubt in the reservoir. (Have yet to fit this due to hoses needing alteration)
In the interim I've "baffled" the mishimoto one with stainless steel large braid wool as recommended by various race techs. Made sure it isn't the kind that can break up and cause more issues like a steel wool or anything like that and it definitely helped reduce the aeration in the tank and slowed the return fluid.

Now back to the ps fitting and hoses.
I'd read a bunch of threads before embarking on this ps line replacement about problems and issues people had faced doing the install.
A big headache seemed to be the rack fittings and issues with them leaking. I mentioned this to the installer when I initially gave him the car and again when we were having aeration issues. I mentioned that the castings often needs to be ground flat due to poor casting lines. When I took the car back for the second time and he'd gone over it he said "Yep no problem, I've checked the rack fittings and they definitely aren't leaking"

Put the car up on a ramp, started the engine, guess what was leaking... FML I could clearly see the crush washer was not seating properly on the rack due to the casting. Having had the car to him twice to deal with an aeration issue I decided to have the rack fittings off and see what the castings looked like. As you'd imagine the rack casting was very proud and uneven with no hope of a decent mating surface for the crush washer (stat o seal)
I had some new crush washers so plugged the holes, got the file out and proceeded to make the rack flat. If anyone's doing this be careful to notice the angles of the inlet/outlet are slightly different (hicas rack). Then went to some 180grit paper and flatted it back nice and smooth.
Air lined the debris, unplugged the holes, reattached the fittings, bled the system and boom, no leak!!

After thoughts:Part of me wishes I'd just had the old hicas ps reservoir welded up and used that then i would of avoided the mishimoto tank issues but I was trying to improve the system hence why I thought a new reputable brand tank would help.

Now it's going back to the mechanic to have the Chase Bays tank fitted so he can customise the hoses to fit.
I get on well with the mechanic and he has gone out of his way (literally) to help me but I do find it a real shame he didn't fix a basic issue I made him aware of twice. Fingers crossed the new tank makes it 100% fixed or I'm ripping the ps out and burning it. Fire lots of fire, that fixes things right..
If you read all that then well done, you deserve a medal or at the very least a cup of tea.

[green_rs13]

I don't get why you are pissing around with aftermarket PAS reservoir's or any of the PAS system. the stock s13 one works fine. ive been drifting on a standard power steering setup for 10+ years.

[shikari chaos]

You honestly think I want to spend money on power steering? ahahaha NO!
Tyres and beers are far higher on the agenda!

Reason one: The ps lines were leaking and very perished.
Reason two: I wanted to completely remove the hicas and simplify the system.

The standard lines from Nissan are the same price as braided if not more expensive so braided high quality lines won my vote. The aeration was mainly due to the leak at the rack so reservoir is not a point of contention.
The Chase Bays item was ordered because the mechanic was sure the rest of the system didn't leak and it must of been the tank. I wouldn't of ordered it otherwise.
Now knowing the system was leaking I might of made a different decision but f**k it, I was so pissed off at that point I jus wanted to rule that out of the equation all together. To validate my reasoning the lads on Nissanroadracing upgrade their systems due to ps res issues so it wasn't going to hurt.

[mishimoto]

Ok so this has become a saga.

Brief synopsis of what happened after the new lines have been fitted. For those who want the full story I've added it below.

-After short drives or lots of steering manoeuvres the steering whined excessively.

-The fluid was aerating. I noticed fluid in my parking spot.

-Took car back to the Mechanic

-Told him obvious places to look. Ps rack fittings and the casting interfering etc

-He said they were not leaking, he'd checked them and we assumed the aeration was form the ps tank

-Ordered a Chase bays PS tank.

-Got the car back, added a baffle to the mishimoto tank it helped a lot but not fixed.

-I got the car on a ramp. The rack fittings were leaking.

-I ground the castings flat, fitted new washers, they stopped leaking.

-I can drive it fairly far and the aeration is very low.

-I'm now awaiting the mechanic to fit the Chase Bays PS tank.

I need to mention the Mechanic has been helpful, drove me home when the car was undriveable just a little disappointed he didn't manage to resolve the issue after two attempts and me telling him where to look.


The full banana:
The Power steering was still whining and aerating. I then noticed the Mishimoto ps tank lost its internal coating. The tank design of the inlet and outlet is basically awful too with no baffling.
Spoke to a few custom fab companies about PS tanks and got a load of info, came very close to getting one custom made and some won't even make them due to the issues you can get with them. Turns out PS tanks are hard to design successfully and insure a good baffle design to reduce fluid return speed and prevent inducing cavitation/aeration in the tank.

I ended up ordering a Chase Bays PS tank from the states that has internal baffles and is specifically designed for track and drift applications. Bit over kill but I'd been more than pissed off by this ps issue and prevents any doubt in the reservoir. (Have yet to fit this due to hoses needing alteration)
In the interim I've "baffled" the mishimoto one with stainless steel large braid wool as recommended by various race techs. Made sure it isn't the kind that can break up and cause more issues like a steel wool or anything like that and it definitely helped reduce the aeration in the tank and slowed the return fluid.

Now back to the ps fitting and hoses.
I'd read a bunch of threads before embarking on this ps line replacement about problems and issues people had faced doing the install.
A big headache seemed to be the rack fittings and issues with them leaking. I mentioned this to the installer when I initially gave him the car and again when we were having aeration issues. I mentioned that the castings often needs to be ground flat due to poor casting lines. When I took the car back for the second time and he'd gone over it he said "Yep no problem, I've checked the rack fittings and they definitely aren't leaking"

Put the car up on a ramp, started the engine, guess what was leaking... FML I could clearly see the crush washer was not seating properly on the rack due to the casting. Having had the car to him twice to deal with an aeration issue I decided to have the rack fittings off and see what the castings looked like. As you'd imagine the rack casting was very proud and uneven with no hope of a decent mating surface for the crush washer (stat o seal)
I had some new crush washers so plugged the holes, got the file out and proceeded to make the rack flat. If anyone's doing this be careful to notice the angles of the inlet/outlet are slightly different (hicas rack). Then went to some 180grit paper and flatted it back nice and smooth.
Air lined the debris, unplugged the holes, reattached the fittings, bled the system and boom, no leak!!

After thoughts:Part of me wishes I'd just had the old hicas ps reservoir welded up and used that then i would of avoided the mishimoto tank issues but I was trying to improve the system hence why I thought a new reputable brand tank would help.

Now it's going back to the mechanic to have the Chase Bays tank fitted so he can customise the hoses to fit.
I get on well with the mechanic and he has gone out of his way (literally) to help me but I do find it a real shame he didn't fix a basic issue I made him aware of twice. Fingers crossed the new tank makes it 100% fixed or I'm ripping the ps out and burning it. Fire lots of fire, that fixes things right..
If you read all that then well done, you deserve a medal or at the very least a cup of tea.

Hey Thanks for the post.

We apologize for what you are experiencing and will be happy to assist you. We are not sure if you have tried contacting us directly, but your product has a lifetime warranty. If you wish to have us look into this for you, please contact us at Support@Mishimoto.com and we will be happy to assist you.

Best Regards,
Mishimoto

[shikari chaos]

Thanks Mishimoto Great to see you supporting your product and wanting to discuss the issue. Sadly I'm past that stage and I've spoken to the engineer who fitted it and he's happy to give me my money back so leaving it in his hands whether to contact you. I'm fitting a Chase Bays tank instead because it has a better internally baffled design. Admittedly at more expense than your tank.
If the Chase Bays tank doesn't resolve the issue then it isn't souly down to your tank design. The coating coming off is still very odd and I will post my findings once the new tank is installed

[skyshack]

And if it still doesn't work?

Then its the new hoses. I suspect using banjos on the rack end hasn't helped. The OEM used unions. Banjo's or hoses may be restricting flow. You would need a 100bar pressure gauge with flow valve and test it as per page ST-8.

[shikari chaos]

And if it still doesn't work?

Then its the new hoses. I suspect using banjos on the rack end hasn't helped. The OEM used unions. Banjo's or hoses may be restricting flow. You would need a 100bar pressure gauge with flow valve and test it as per page ST-8.

It's working but aeration is mild. The moshimoto res is still in place because the car is waiting to go back to the mechanic to have the tank fittings changed and new Chase Bays tank installed because both tanks have different in/out union placement.
Did I mention "Banjos"? The new hoses don't use banjos. The fittings at the rack are both straight fit AN fittings with thread adapters and stat o seal washers. The leak has now visibly gone and the aeration has massively minimised hence my "mild" statement. I'm currently awaiting the new reservoir install so hopefully that'll get the aeration fully under control due to proper baffling/ separation of the incoming and outgoing fluid as well as adequately slowing down the return fluid.