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Thread: Tyres, staggered vs Square (race track setup)

  1. #41
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
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    I was going to make the same points as zeppelin, in that gt3rs is rear engined and 458 is mid rear so have different reqiurements form a front engined rear drive car.

    However I agree with Pi and others, having tried wider on the front, I actually felt 245 was noticeably worse than 235, so I'd imagine 265 would be much worse, and this was under timed competitive runs where all that counted was the time which was shown after each run.

    If you really want to try wider then of course you can, but wider tyre doesn't mean more grip, it can mean less, I'm not good enough to explain all the maths and various behind it, but anyone else is welcome to

    Then again I still insist on using light forged 17 inch wheels for timed runs as I think 18's are far worse.
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
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  2. #42
    Guest BLAKTOOTH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    I like you mate but I don't think in this case you really have any idea what you're talking about.

    You don't define ride and comfort with tyre width. And just because someone else does it in the aftermarket world, it doesn't make it good. I really dislike this internet ideology that OEM's do it because it suits them, not because it's good.

    Ultimatley it's your call and if you want to go bigger, that's fine, but you can't try and pass it off as an excercise based on fact when almost every other car manufacturer has adopted the very strategy you're saying probably isn't any good. And if you like your 'aggressive' set up on geometry, be prepared to have to dial that out signifcantly to take another 30mm of tyre.
    http://youtu.be/Af-Id_fuXFA

    http://www.the-lowdown.com/motive-s14/

    http://www.the-lowdown.com/s-chassis...sts_position=0

    http://www.the-lowdown.com/heasman-s...sts_position=2

    http://www.speedhunters.com/2008/10/...s14_track_car/

    http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/04/...r-time-attack/

    http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/02/...5-attack-time/
    Last edited by BLAKTOOTH; 31-10-2014 at 10:15.

  3. #43
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    I literally have no idea what you're trying to prove with those links?

    My comments are pro-staggered front to rear. Rich's car was staggered front to rear which is exactly my point, and I think had a truly wider track didn't it by extended suspension arms?

    The SX Developments car is just another Time Attack after market tuner car, you can't take anything from that when my point is to the theory adopted by OEMS with far more money and expertise.

    Internet vs. Experience, again.

    Entire post is pointless Lee.

  4. #44
    Guest BLAKTOOTH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    I literally have no idea what you're trying to prove with those links?

    My comments are pro-staggered front to rear. Rich's car was staggered front to rear which is exactly my point, and I think had a truly wider track didn't it by extended suspension arms?

    The SX Developments car is just another Time Attack after market tuner car, you can't take anything from that when my point is to the theory adopted by OEMS with far more money and expertise.

    Internet vs. Experience, again.

    Entire post is pointless Lee.
    Fast 200SX's running with 265 tyres. How is that pointless. Your OEM comparisson is more pointless.

    This makes an interesting read. As do other articles on this website.

    http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=2433

  5. #45
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    Oh good, more internet discussion.

  6. #46
    Guest BLAKTOOTH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Oh good, more internet discussion.
    From real people, running real cars (200SX's), on real race tracks as opposed to the opinion in your head.

  7. #47
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    Translated as

    From a group of enthusiasts who think they know better, based on driving one bespoke car with one bespoke set up, than people with millions of dollars and thousands of years of collective vehicle dynamics experience producing tens of thousands of warrantied vehicles per year.

  8. #48
    Guest BLAKTOOTH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Translated as

    From a group of enthusiasts who think they know better, based on driving one bespoke car with one bespoke set up, than people with millions of dollars and thousands of years of collective vehicle dynamics experience producing tens of thousands of warrantied vehicles per year.
    You have it all wrong, again, in that colourful little brain of yours....imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoorMans180SX View Post
    Just FYI, the fastest s-chassis around Tsukuba runs 265/35 Advan A050s all around.

  9. #49
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    That's fine, if you think I have it wrong you're entitled to that opinion. But quoting internet posts doesn't make your case. Just because something is fast, doesn't mean it's the best.

  10. #50
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    The reason supercars are staggered is they are road cars and the roads are shit so if they run a square set up they would tramline like a cnut (A Macca P1 runs 315s on the rear so the same on the front would be comical) If the road car set up was the best for the car then they would run the same on the GT cars which they dont. Although they still dont run a square setup but more a 'nearly square' one of 300s on the front and 310s on the rear. V8 Supercars run a square set up (280s all round).

    You have to accept that on the road 265s all round will be fooking horrible and you could probably gain more from geometry and tyre pressures/compounds that sizes
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  11. #51
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    Car = 2015 Camaro Z28 "Track car"

    Wheres the Engine = In the front

    Where the car been developed for = The track

    Front tires = 305/30ZR19 Pirelli PZero Trofeo R

    Rear tires = 305/30ZR19 Pirelli PZero Trofeo R


    Blacktooth, try a square set up, see if you have more grip.

    Chris Harris's has a video of that car on youtube, quite interesting

  12. #52
    Guest BLAKTOOTH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    That's fine, if you think I have it wrong you're entitled to that opinion. But quoting internet posts doesn't make your case. Just because something is fast, doesn't mean it's the best.
    Does in my books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    The reason supercars are staggered is they are road cars and the roads are shit so if they run a square set up they would tramline like a cnut (A Macca P1 runs 315s on the rear so the same on the front would be comical) If the road car set up was the best for the car then they would run the same on the GT cars which they dont. Although they still dont run a square setup but more a 'nearly square' one of 300s on the front and 310s on the rear. V8 Supercars run a square set up (280s all round).

    You have to accept that on the road 265s all round will be fooking horrible and you could probably gain more from geometry and tyre pressures/compounds that sizes
    I concur.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
    Car = 2015 Camaro Z28 "Track car"

    Wheres the Engine = In the front

    Where the car been developed for = The track

    Front tires = 305/30ZR19 Pirelli PZero Trofeo R

    Rear tires = 305/30ZR19 Pirelli PZero Trofeo R


    Blacktooth, try a square set up, see if you have more grip.

    Chris Harris's has a video of that car on youtube, quite interesting
    Thanks.

  13. #53
    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
    Car = 2015 Camaro Z28 "Track car"

    Wheres the Engine = In the front

    Where the car been developed for = The track

    Front tires = 305/30ZR19 Pirelli PZero Trofeo R

    Rear tires = 305/30ZR19 Pirelli PZero Trofeo R


    Blacktooth, try a square set up, see if you have more grip.

    Chris Harris's has a video of that car on youtube, quite interesting
    It also weighs a shit load more than a 200SX and would therefore benefit from very wide tyres.

    There is more to this than just the location of the engine.

    As I said before, if you think you're overheating already quite wide tyres on track then I think there is more to consider than just going wider on tyre - you really should take a look at geometry and get some measurements of what the temperatures actually are after a session.

    It's all very well quoting this article and that forum but there is no substitute for collecting real data and drawing some conclusions from it.

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